Teir`Dal Sai
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Scars of Velious
Teir`Dal Sai dropped from a vicar of hate in Plane of Hate B. Must be kind of rare. Weird that it looks like a piercer but is classified as 1H Blunt.
Scholar
20 posts
Ok, I have had one of these in my ******* since one of my very first trips up to Hate. I hear all you non-monks complaining about our weight limits (which most of you obviously don't know very well) and even some of the monks out thee a bit unsure.
Here's the formula for those of you that are unsure:
Lvl 1-14: 14 Stones
Lvl 15-29: 15 Stones
Lvl 30-44: 16 Stones
Lvl 45-50: 17 Stones
Lvl 51-54: 18 Stones
Lvl 55-59: 20 Stones
Lvl 60: 22 Stones
(I'm not sure how or if it progressed 61-65. never noticed.)
**numbers taken off Monkly Business website**
Now if you look at the 5.2 weight on this thing from a lower level monk's point of view, yes, it would be hideous. Between the average grade of the monk's armor and his weapon selection at the time, Yes, this kind of weight would put probably throw him over his limit.
But think, this is a planar drop (and a pretty rare one at that, usually taking several trips up to hate to even see one drop). By the time most monks get a chance at this weapon, they're usually in PoG/Veliuos quality armor (which is very low weight) and probably using weapons that are no more than a pound or two; bring his total weight up to well below his cap at the time. I know when I wield this right now at 55, with a weight limit of 20 stones, I can STILL max out at about 13 weight, just with Thurg/PoG armor on and a few other miscellaneous pieces. Add in a tinkerers bag or rallic pack and ee bag, and it barely hits 15 with this thing equipped.
Choose your gear wisely and you will never have issues with not being able to equip or use an item due to weight. As a few of the previous posters said, if your STA is over 100, you will NOT suffer any loss in dps or avoidance or anything from running out of endurance during a fight; you just won't be able to jump....that's it.
Bottom line, this is a GREAT weapon for any of the three classes that gets their hands on it but is VERY ideal for monks due to damage and added ac.
---
Asturias Aurora - Master
Coins Malone - Blackguard
Ventagge Wyldfyre - Pathfinder
Flamewart Firetongue - Shaman
Center Fury - Beastlord
Anzhuri Pain - Shadowknight
Saelomon Storm - Enchanter
Fifer Melancholy - Bard
---
AGL of <Night Wolves> on Fennin Ro
Here's the formula for those of you that are unsure:
Lvl 1-14: 14 Stones
Lvl 15-29: 15 Stones
Lvl 30-44: 16 Stones
Lvl 45-50: 17 Stones
Lvl 51-54: 18 Stones
Lvl 55-59: 20 Stones
Lvl 60: 22 Stones
(I'm not sure how or if it progressed 61-65. never noticed.)
**numbers taken off Monkly Business website**
Now if you look at the 5.2 weight on this thing from a lower level monk's point of view, yes, it would be hideous. Between the average grade of the monk's armor and his weapon selection at the time, Yes, this kind of weight would put probably throw him over his limit.
But think, this is a planar drop (and a pretty rare one at that, usually taking several trips up to hate to even see one drop). By the time most monks get a chance at this weapon, they're usually in PoG/Veliuos quality armor (which is very low weight) and probably using weapons that are no more than a pound or two; bring his total weight up to well below his cap at the time. I know when I wield this right now at 55, with a weight limit of 20 stones, I can STILL max out at about 13 weight, just with Thurg/PoG armor on and a few other miscellaneous pieces. Add in a tinkerers bag or rallic pack and ee bag, and it barely hits 15 with this thing equipped.
Choose your gear wisely and you will never have issues with not being able to equip or use an item due to weight. As a few of the previous posters said, if your STA is over 100, you will NOT suffer any loss in dps or avoidance or anything from running out of endurance during a fight; you just won't be able to jump....that's it.
Bottom line, this is a GREAT weapon for any of the three classes that gets their hands on it but is VERY ideal for monks due to damage and added ac.
---
Asturias Aurora - Master
Coins Malone - Blackguard
Ventagge Wyldfyre - Pathfinder
Flamewart Firetongue - Shaman
Center Fury - Beastlord
Anzhuri Pain - Shadowknight
Saelomon Storm - Enchanter
Fifer Melancholy - Bard
---
AGL of <Night Wolves> on Fennin Ro
23 posts
Does this still drop??? I have just now gotten back into the game after a 2+ yr absence...I have just recently gotten my monk up to level 51, and would like to go up there and get this...This is what I envision a Monk weapon to be, not Ulak, not claws, not scepters, THIS is what monk weapons should be like...anyway, anyone know if this still drops??
Thanks!
Thanks!
44 posts
I got this for my L50 monk on the last POH raid we went to. None of the other Rogues and monks (no bard) wanted it so I was allowed to loot it. Aye, I agree its a tad heavy for a monk but DW this with my Knotted Knuckles I am still below my 17wt limit. I am pretty happy with it. I hit hard and fast and it has a unique look - looks a bit like a dagger. I get lots of tells from other monks asking me what it is (after they stop laughing ;p ).
4 posts
Can the Sai be seen on the Desciples while they are alive?
3 posts
Yes it can be seen on the Agents when they have it. One dropped tonight on CT. First one that I have seen, we were all guessing FS.
I don't know what it's like for other monks but 5 wt. can be 40-80AC LOST... which is like 4 monk BP's if you are using a good one... tell me that doesn't matter for the measly 9AC on the item. Thats like taking all your armor off basically.
It matters a lot. If you could spare the weight for the speed and increased DPS of using this weapon then 'far out man' thats the way to go... but jeeez, not if you are at your limit allready. The only other exception is when you are totally just there for added DPS, not in a regular 'group' or soloing... but raiding.
my 2 bucks on the matter...
Ashremm - Monk of Luclin
It matters a lot. If you could spare the weight for the speed and increased DPS of using this weapon then 'far out man' thats the way to go... but jeeez, not if you are at your limit allready. The only other exception is when you are totally just there for added DPS, not in a regular 'group' or soloing... but raiding.
my 2 bucks on the matter...
Ashremm - Monk of Luclin
This is true. The weight is a bit high for a 1 hand weapon. BUT, By the time you are level 46, a Monk's weight limit is about 17 pounds. With good armor, and a decent weight reducing bag, you should be around 8-10 pounds, leaving you with 7 - 9 pounds to play with for your weapons.
I myself LOVE spider fur armor for this reason. At level 50, I currently wear the Spider Fur Collar, Cloak, AND Belt. 30AC 11str 4 sta 4dex 4agi and 50-60hp, and no weight added. If you're worried about weight on your weapons, though, wield Knuckle Dusters. 14 damage 28 delay and only 1 pound each. Clears up a lot of weight that could be assigned to other slots with better ac/stats... There are always other choices, and most people looking for this item, that are monks (knowing other classes want this as well, and I don't blame them), can spare the weight.
..
Just my two coppers :)
Edited, Tue Aug 6 14:09:54 2002
I myself LOVE spider fur armor for this reason. At level 50, I currently wear the Spider Fur Collar, Cloak, AND Belt. 30AC 11str 4 sta 4dex 4agi and 50-60hp, and no weight added. If you're worried about weight on your weapons, though, wield Knuckle Dusters. 14 damage 28 delay and only 1 pound each. Clears up a lot of weight that could be assigned to other slots with better ac/stats... There are always other choices, and most people looking for this item, that are monks (knowing other classes want this as well, and I don't blame them), can spare the weight.
..
Just my two coppers :)
Edited, Tue Aug 6 14:09:54 2002
7 posts
is this more commonly a:
Rogue weapon
Monk weapon
Bard weapon
I am a monk and will be going on a PoH raid, I just wanna know if bards and rogues will really want this sucker.
Rogue weapon
Monk weapon
Bard weapon
I am a monk and will be going on a PoH raid, I just wanna know if bards and rogues will really want this sucker.
Scholar
46 posts
I see alot of monks complaining about this weapon's weight. Uhm, are you crazy? Look at the stats. 11/19 9ac 5agi! I don't know about you but I'd most definitely sacrifice being afew (if at all) stones overweight for this thing. Remember, most cases you are the damage dealer, not tank.
30 posts
I don't know about you but I'd most definitely sacrifice being afew (if at all) stones overweight
Well yer prolly not a monk dude, a "few" stones overwieght usually means 50+ac
Well yer prolly not a monk dude, a "few" stones overwieght usually means 50+ac
35 posts
Advantage of being in a guild where the Rogues already have their uber_item01.. they passed when this dropped.
Weilding this and my Knuckle Dusters, I am only at 15 weight, so all is good there. Also, I have been using a TStaff since level 46 or so. The TStaff weighs 10. Yes, my AC dropped *a little* when going over weight, but since I am *rarely* the main tank I have no problems with lowering my AC to add significantly to my damage output. As for AC matters when pulling? well... mobs that usually hit me for 120 hit for 2209 when my back is turned and I am pulling. Do I think 5AC is gonna make a bit of difference between life and death on a pull? No.
As for the Stamina - when stamina dropps down, your Double Attack skill appears to go down. You still hit as hard as usual, but instead of DA giving you 7 attacks per 4 rounds, you will only get 5 or 6. Unless someone has a slot free or unless Zing is already loaded for someone else, just put the heavy weapon into a bag when you reach half-stamina and let your fists do the talking.
Of course, these are just my opinions...
Weilding this and my Knuckle Dusters, I am only at 15 weight, so all is good there. Also, I have been using a TStaff since level 46 or so. The TStaff weighs 10. Yes, my AC dropped *a little* when going over weight, but since I am *rarely* the main tank I have no problems with lowering my AC to add significantly to my damage output. As for AC matters when pulling? well... mobs that usually hit me for 120 hit for 2209 when my back is turned and I am pulling. Do I think 5AC is gonna make a bit of difference between life and death on a pull? No.
As for the Stamina - when stamina dropps down, your Double Attack skill appears to go down. You still hit as hard as usual, but instead of DA giving you 7 attacks per 4 rounds, you will only get 5 or 6. Unless someone has a slot free or unless Zing is already loaded for someone else, just put the heavy weapon into a bag when you reach half-stamina and let your fists do the talking.
Of course, these are just my opinions...
Scholar
18 posts
Hmm, at level 58, with my current gear I'm only around 7-8 stones weight. I would definitely want one of these, even with epic it's got a decent ratio and I'd wield it regularly if for no other reason, it's cute as heck to be crushing things with what looks like a dagger. ***** the weight, I've got 158 STA right now unbuffed, and I don't know about the guy complaining about how running out of STA affects his damage output, but thus far it sure hasn't hurt mine any. As a puller, running and jumping and fighting (oh my!) my STA likes to deplete quickly but it really doesn't detract from my damage output. But then Talanic is a bard (we're on the same server, neato) and he's a weakling... ha. Anyhow, my initial point is this, don't tell us Monks about our weight restriction or what we can or can not use. Most Monks at my level at least, can easily handle a 5 stone item without having kidney failure or something along those lines.
The "no disadvantage if your stamina hits 0 if your STA is over 100" thing is a total myth.
When your stamina hits zero, your damage mitigation takes a HUGE hit. Try it once and you'll see; your AC doesn't drop but you'll start getting pounded even by greens. I found this out when I'd been tanking the same two MOBs for about three minutes; when my STA ran out, I had 3/4 of my health left. In about eight seconds I was reduced to 10% and had to run like hell.
When your stamina hits zero, your damage mitigation takes a HUGE hit. Try it once and you'll see; your AC doesn't drop but you'll start getting pounded even by greens. I found this out when I'd been tanking the same two MOBs for about three minutes; when my STA ran out, I had 3/4 of my health left. In about eight seconds I was reduced to 10% and had to run like hell.
4 posts
I hate to be skeptical about this but I'm going to have to be. Do you have any logs/results that support this aside from what you noted visually during one battle?
i for one dont notice i difference...ive been soloing the platform in MM for a few days now (awesome xp there...42sk atm) and a few of the ancilles have a spell that drains 100% of your stamina. when this occurs i see no difference as my STA is over 100...happens all the time to, ill pay more attention now but i prolly still wotn see a difference :(
#Anonymous,
Posted: Oct 02 2001 at 1:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I swear to god.....whoever crys about 5.2 weight shoot yourself...seriously.....that 5.2 pounds is negated by the AC9 and AGI+5.....I did the math.....you stupid stupid newbies
7 posts
The 5.2 wieght is a very serious consideration. Your mocking it shows your extreme ignorance. First of all, with the weight restrictions that a monk has to deal with a wieght of 5.2 on ANY single piece of equipment will make most monks cringe, unless they are equipped well enough to be well below their wieght cap. Also Monks aside, the 5.2 wieght would seriously affect ANY of the classes that can use this weapon, since these three classes have the highest rates of attack of any class in the game (the bard if he has haste song up). So that 5.2 wieght can cause you to burn through your stamina in no time at all. Which is VERY bad if you're fighting a high lvl velious mob. About halfway through the fight, your rate of attack, and agility will drop considerably (IE now the mob is dying more slowly and you will die much more quickly). Honestly I'm not sure what math you did Mr. 'Anonymous', but I think you need to head back to grade school, because obviously your everquest addiction is detracting from you math skills.
I guess all I can really say to you is: If you keep your mouth shut, it's much more difficult to put your foot in it.
Pithx Shadowfoot 51 Rogue of Bristlebane
The Rogue with Flowing Thought I
I guess all I can really say to you is: If you keep your mouth shut, it's much more difficult to put your foot in it.
Pithx Shadowfoot 51 Rogue of Bristlebane
The Rogue with Flowing Thought I
Scholar
30 posts
Aye, as long as your stamina is over 100 you keep on fighting and don't have any problems.
Plus, with the new weight increase for monks, they can carry 18wt without getting any AC penalities starting at lvl 45. I'd re-arrange some gear for this piece. It's very nice, plus it puts ac on a slot that doesn't normally have it.
Plus, with the new weight increase for monks, they can carry 18wt without getting any AC penalities starting at lvl 45. I'd re-arrange some gear for this piece. It's very nice, plus it puts ac on a slot that doesn't normally have it.
47 posts
Wheww, the kettle calling the pot black here.
The only that will happen midfight when you lose your stamina, is you wont be able to jump, if your stamina is 100+, like it should be for any melee of this level.
The only problem I can see here is having to jump over the corpse of a 51 rogue to get at your mob if you get pushed out of range.
The weight is a small consideration, however, most monks probably accept that their weaps are going to be somewhat heavy, and should be ok witha 5.2 weap, as long as the other one is a 1.0 model.
The only that will happen midfight when you lose your stamina, is you wont be able to jump, if your stamina is 100+, like it should be for any melee of this level.
The only problem I can see here is having to jump over the corpse of a 51 rogue to get at your mob if you get pushed out of range.
The weight is a small consideration, however, most monks probably accept that their weaps are going to be somewhat heavy, and should be ok witha 5.2 weap, as long as the other one is a 1.0 model.
5 posts
You guys do realize that 5.2 is not Pounds, but Stones, a British measurement of weight. 1 Stone weighs about 7 pounds, so this damn Sai weighs 36 damn pounds. I doubt Verant got that number right, since like others, the heaviest Sai I have ever held in my hand weighed no more than 5 pounds.
9 posts
or maybe Norath is a different world entirely, so the units of weight there have no connection whatsoever with earth measurment. I think that stones was said once as a way of roleplaying but dont think its accurate at all.
1 Stone = 14 lbs (Imperial system - Imperial referring to the British Empire).
which would make this item weigh almost 73 lbs. And the "average" 75 STR person can carry 1,050 lbs without slowing down.
Ergo, the idea that 1 EQ weight = 14 lbs is wrong...
Treating it as if it weighs 5.2 lbs is credible, and fits with what PhoenixZorn himself says.
Probably still too heavy for a Monk, though. :)
which would make this item weigh almost 73 lbs. And the "average" 75 STR person can carry 1,050 lbs without slowing down.
Ergo, the idea that 1 EQ weight = 14 lbs is wrong...
Treating it as if it weighs 5.2 lbs is credible, and fits with what PhoenixZorn himself says.
Probably still too heavy for a Monk, though. :)
25 posts
So you're saying that the average character (100 STR) can carry around 700 pounds before slowing down? Yeesh
1 post
What do these drop off of?
Scholar
31 posts
Off Agents of Innoruuk in PoH, we got one during a 3 day event.
4 posts
i just got one of these weapons last night and it doesn't look like the sai that most have seen in real life. it kinda looks like this: o-|--- it should look like this: o-<--- it kinda looks like i'm holding a long dagger. the stats are nice though.
3 posts
heh, 23 monk here and if RPG was real life i would be a dead dojo master.
a sai is a three pronged fork the outer prongs usualy half the length of the middle, they can be called blunt i guess but, i would say peircing. they were first used for hay the were made smaller for hichting wagons then someone started using one for defense, now its a martial art, only we now use two, i dont understand why verant made this a lore item it would be cool to have a matching pair maybe glowing diff colors and with similar names. AYE and there seems to be a problem with the weight i dont ever recall using a RL sai that weighed 5lbs. i think even if u see a pic of them in a magazine u can tell they dont weigh much, i think they should be about 2.5. and yes there was a ninja turtle who used these i cant recall the name but i think he wore a red head band.
*bow*
safe journeys fellow monks and remember
"Before we can find what we want, we must first find ourselves"
Matser Wu
P.S. anyone know where master Wu ran off to i heard tier dall took over his camp in LFAY?
a sai is a three pronged fork the outer prongs usualy half the length of the middle, they can be called blunt i guess but, i would say peircing. they were first used for hay the were made smaller for hichting wagons then someone started using one for defense, now its a martial art, only we now use two, i dont understand why verant made this a lore item it would be cool to have a matching pair maybe glowing diff colors and with similar names. AYE and there seems to be a problem with the weight i dont ever recall using a RL sai that weighed 5lbs. i think even if u see a pic of them in a magazine u can tell they dont weigh much, i think they should be about 2.5. and yes there was a ninja turtle who used these i cant recall the name but i think he wore a red head band.
*bow*
safe journeys fellow monks and remember
"Before we can find what we want, we must first find ourselves"
Matser Wu
P.S. anyone know where master Wu ran off to i heard tier dall took over his camp in LFAY?
28 posts
Aye...using a Sai is more 1hb work than piercing of any sort...piercing weapons have a way of getting stuck in the opponent whereas any sort of club does its damage and is still free for another blow (a very important difference between weapons for single versus crowd combat...although carrying multiple daggers is also a concievable adaptation to riot duty). Sai were basically glorified steel clubs with hilts to aid in blocking attack and add weight. Just as you would rarely if ever consider stabbing with a broadsword, you wouldn't normally poke with a sai...
In any case, I'm going to argue hard to be on the roll for this weapon for my bard if it drops in tonight's hate raid. The AGI boost is something I don't have on my other weapons...every chance at dodging helps when you work as a puller, especially in tighter areas of dungeons. Besides...2 out of the 3 rogues I know are going have 12/x or better weapons for their backstab, so...=)
In any case, I'm going to argue hard to be on the roll for this weapon for my bard if it drops in tonight's hate raid. The AGI boost is something I don't have on my other weapons...every chance at dodging helps when you work as a puller, especially in tighter areas of dungeons. Besides...2 out of the 3 rogues I know are going have 12/x or better weapons for their backstab, so...=)
I wouldnt call them piercers, at the tip they kindda go into a point but its really small, in the martial arts using the side of the Sai and the base (which some add a little steel knob thingy) are more commonly used than the actually tip
but hey i could be wrong, i just started learning how to use these =)
but hey i could be wrong, i just started learning how to use these =)
7 posts
His Name was Raphael =) He was the turtle with an Attitude problem, LOL.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 30 2001 at 4:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well the 5.2 weight bars me from this weapon completly. Thx verant for giving a great monk style weapon to the rogues
4 posts
If you got your monk some better gear even this weapon seems like compaired to the Tranquil staff. I use the WT10 2hb and am only 1 "stone" as, everyone says, overweight. So this weapon is a great monk weapon being that it's 1hb with ac and decent ratio. Any monk who says otherwise needs better, lighter armor.
17 posts
Well, I think the stats and proc of tstaff make it worth the wt. The stats on this thing do not do the same. One thing people seem to neglect in their calcualtions is inventory wt. Unless you are someone who is always begging stuff off other players or has a personal bag man following you around, you are going to have 3-4 wt in bags plus the wt of stuff that are not in 100% wt reducing bags (bandages, food, water, resist gear, keys, invis potions, gate potion, etc.). It will all sneak up on you.
I have problems staying below my wt cap and I don't even have a Tstaff. My heaviest gear is engraved bone pauldrons (2.5 ... so want to upgrade to something lighter), fungi (2.0), SoM (3.0), SoS (3.2). Swaping out one of my weapons for this would add 2 to my wt, ensuring I'm over my limit completely negating the ~14 AC I'll gain from it and giving me a worse ratio (although slightly faster) weapon to boot.
So, my evaluation is that this IS a good monk weapon, but NOT a great monk weapon. Maybe if the wt was dropped by 2 it would be more appealing.
If you have reasonable suggestions on how I can lighten my load, here is my profile:
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/userinfo.html?char=63784
Edited, Wed Jan 30 08:21:36 2002
I have problems staying below my wt cap and I don't even have a Tstaff. My heaviest gear is engraved bone pauldrons (2.5 ... so want to upgrade to something lighter), fungi (2.0), SoM (3.0), SoS (3.2). Swaping out one of my weapons for this would add 2 to my wt, ensuring I'm over my limit completely negating the ~14 AC I'll gain from it and giving me a worse ratio (although slightly faster) weapon to boot.
So, my evaluation is that this IS a good monk weapon, but NOT a great monk weapon. Maybe if the wt was dropped by 2 it would be more appealing.
If you have reasonable suggestions on how I can lighten my load, here is my profile:
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/userinfo.html?char=63784
Edited, Wed Jan 30 08:21:36 2002
Anonymous
If anyone hasnt noticed in all the talk of
sai's this is oneof the awesomest weapons ive
ever seen!! im an agi monks and the AC
agi and damage and delay and cool look on a
monk are mind boggling...5.2 pounds who cares
im a 53 Monk and this baby's awesome
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 19 2001 at 9:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lol, who cares what a Sai is int Real Life, we are speaking of a virtual weapon here, IT IS NOT REAL! It exists only in a game. Since Everquest is pretty different from anything in our world, I assume their Sai must be something quite different from ours.
Actually if you want to get into the language issue, A Sai was actually used to hold together wagons where they would hitch onto the horses. The used it because it was all they had. /shrug oh well now I feel like a ******* adult or some kinda ****** up teacher
1 post
I dont want to flame everyone/anyone here. Many people here are well trained and have done research in traditional okinawan budo. Others have no clue. NONE. For goodness sakes.. if you post on what you assume is the traditional use for a japanese farm item (in this case it was a seed planting device, not a trailer pin)get some definitive knowledge on the subject. www.e-budo.com,edumacate yourself by people who know. If youre too shy, or dont find the knowledge you seek their, (which you should) You can pick a book called Secrets of the Samurai at just about any Barnes& Nobles. The object in question is a good weapon eq wise, and an excellent blunt/pressure-point-peircing weapon depending on which ryu you studied under. NO, ninja did NOT traditionally use these items. The object that everyone is thinking about is called jutte/jitte, it was used by the japanese policemen to help apprehend and disarm unruly Ronin after Japan was supposedly disarmed. (whole nother lesson there). It didnt have a point at all traditionally.. it was very blunt, with only one prong. I concur.. who the heck ever heard of using just one sai?
Nukinin Mimochi
Phoenix Arising - Bertox
Brian Clark
Genbukan Ninpo
Nukinin Mimochi
Phoenix Arising - Bertox
Brian Clark
Genbukan Ninpo
Scholar
28 posts
Technically, from a role-playing standpoint, an item being labelled as lore means it is the only one of its kind in existence. It is THE Teir'Dal Sai. That is why you can only have one. You are just supposed to pretend you don't see it when you notice 10 other monks wielding the exact same "one-of-a-kind" sai. However, sai do come in pairs, so there ought to be another sai that is this one's "mate" so to speak. It could have a similar name like "Keir'Dal Sai" or something. Instead of being 11/19 and 5.2 pounds, it could be 19/5 and 1.1 pounds. That would be fair, don't you think? hehehe.
Teir'Dal means dark elf, whereas Keir'Dal means nothing :P
#Anonymous,
Posted: Jul 09 2001 at 5:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You all have way too much time on your hands!
17 posts
5.2 weight is too heavy for a monk useable 1hb weapon unless you are epicified and want something for the offhand and you don't have a SoS. It's just a slap in the face to monks.
20 posts
My only question, and maybe someone said something about this and I missed it, but aren't Sais supposed to come in pairs? I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but if so, then I'm miffed at the LORE stat...
9 posts
Yes, Sai's are normally used in pairs, and This being a Lore item is practically laughable. Verant, not exactly your best accomplishment. Good job on researching martial arts weopons, Lol.
Qianxun Thejaguar
Kindred Order
Bertoxx
Qianxun Thejaguar
Kindred Order
Bertoxx
44 posts
The discussion here seems intense, heh. While I am no master of Goginryu, I can say this on sai. Like most, if not ALL Okinawan weapons, the sai as we know it today derived from a farmtool, the hayfork. Ever bailed hay, folks? Indeed, the 3 prongs and sturdy construction was just for such INITIALLY. And yes, as a farm implement, it was a Piercing tool. But as a weapon, the tip is nominal. The Sai in combat is ALL about SwordBreaking.
That said, one of the beauties of Goginryu was the incredible adaptations of tools and implements in a time when real weapons were not legal for peasants to own. Nunchaku - modified grain flail; Kusarigama - grain scythe; and my personal favorite (classical name escapes me), the Iron Smoking Pipe, hehe.
And by the by...Electra RuLz!
That said, one of the beauties of Goginryu was the incredible adaptations of tools and implements in a time when real weapons were not legal for peasants to own. Nunchaku - modified grain flail; Kusarigama - grain scythe; and my personal favorite (classical name escapes me), the Iron Smoking Pipe, hehe.
And by the by...Electra RuLz!
2 posts
You are only partially right, sai were developed from farm tools but it was a tool used in planting seed not a hay fork. They are not strictly blocking and disarming weapons they are also used to strike primarily as blunt weapons. My knowledge comes from the fact that I have studied Kobujitsu (Okinawan weapons)for a little over 10 years, and it is the style that all Japanese forms using nunchaku, sai, tonfa and kamas are based on. It also uses the cane, oar kusari-gama, manriki, manriki-gusari, and several other more obscure Japanese weapons.
Actually it was a guy named Frank Miller that showed the use of Sai to interpret them as a piercing weapon in modern entertainment culture.
If you don't know him, he's a comic book writer. He worked on the Daredevil character from Marvel back in the early-mid 80's and changed him from a pathetic dork into the brooding troubled hero he is today even.
Daredevil himself didn't use the Sai, it was a female assassin named Elektra that Daredevil was in love with (and who eventually got murdered by one of DD's arch rivals) that used the Sai as her weapon of choice. Miller the piercing aspect of them when Elektra made her kills and the popularity of the series back then got that image to stick. Elektra was eventually killed by DD's arch enemy, Bullseye by stabbing her through the chest with her own Sai.
By the way, even the origin of the ORGINAL Eastman and Laird Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is almost an exact copy of Daredevil's origin. E&L were inspired to create TMNT by Frank Miller's work on the Daredevil series which included a huge underground Evil Ninja organization called "The Hand" which is where the assassin Elektra originally got her training before she tried to escape from them. Sounds remarkably like "The Foot" organization from TMNT doesn't it? :)
Even Wolverine's very first mini-series (that was written around the same time) involed the Hand. Everyone was very impressed with Miller's work and he had a great and widespread influence on the Marvel world back then.
Give credit where credit's due...
If you don't know him, he's a comic book writer. He worked on the Daredevil character from Marvel back in the early-mid 80's and changed him from a pathetic dork into the brooding troubled hero he is today even.
Daredevil himself didn't use the Sai, it was a female assassin named Elektra that Daredevil was in love with (and who eventually got murdered by one of DD's arch rivals) that used the Sai as her weapon of choice. Miller the piercing aspect of them when Elektra made her kills and the popularity of the series back then got that image to stick. Elektra was eventually killed by DD's arch enemy, Bullseye by stabbing her through the chest with her own Sai.
By the way, even the origin of the ORGINAL Eastman and Laird Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is almost an exact copy of Daredevil's origin. E&L were inspired to create TMNT by Frank Miller's work on the Daredevil series which included a huge underground Evil Ninja organization called "The Hand" which is where the assassin Elektra originally got her training before she tried to escape from them. Sounds remarkably like "The Foot" organization from TMNT doesn't it? :)
Even Wolverine's very first mini-series (that was written around the same time) involed the Hand. Everyone was very impressed with Miller's work and he had a great and widespread influence on the Marvel world back then.
Give credit where credit's due...
13 posts
I think the Hand was also involved in the transformation of Psylocke from a nice British girl to a badass Asian assassin.
Sais are traditionally blunt, but this was to disguise their combat nature with utility, since the farmers weren't allowed to own weapons. Having pointed sais is a simple, logical evolution for a traditionally trained but modern assassin like Elektra.
Frank Miller is far from some comic artist, and he most probably knows more about weapons than any of us here. He made sais pointy intentionally to fit Elektra's background.
25 posts
I don't know about who first did it, but why "give credit" to the guy that screwed up because he didn't do enough research?
Sais have NO sharp edges. They were not made to jab or slash, they were made to parry and entangle, and they were dull (BLUNT) weapons. Heck, they weren't really weapons, they were more like parrying daggers.
This information is from memory, so it may be quite wrong, as I read about them quite a while back: Their origins are ancient Japan, the jitte or sai were used as paired weapons to counter/disarm the Samurais' daisho (Katana and Wakizashi).
So there. I don't give a crap what some comic artist thought they were, THEY WERE NOT SHARP AT ALL. NO SHARP EDGES.
And yeah, Sais weigh quite a bit. Their hilts are thick, for one, and they're made of metal. They're heavy (yes, I've wielded a pair of them... not to say I'm any good with them, but yes I've tried them out.)
Sais have NO sharp edges. They were not made to jab or slash, they were made to parry and entangle, and they were dull (BLUNT) weapons. Heck, they weren't really weapons, they were more like parrying daggers.
This information is from memory, so it may be quite wrong, as I read about them quite a while back: Their origins are ancient Japan, the jitte or sai were used as paired weapons to counter/disarm the Samurais' daisho (Katana and Wakizashi).
So there. I don't give a crap what some comic artist thought they were, THEY WERE NOT SHARP AT ALL. NO SHARP EDGES.
And yeah, Sais weigh quite a bit. Their hilts are thick, for one, and they're made of metal. They're heavy (yes, I've wielded a pair of them... not to say I'm any good with them, but yes I've tried them out.)
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